These habits are what got them to FI. "There's a loose conspiracy between the financial media and the investment industry," he says. My younger self would have jumped at the chance. Dave told him to buy the bike and enjoy his wealth! Thank you all. In assembling portfolios, they draw from a wide menu of asset classes, including large U.S. value stocks, small emerging markets stocks, REITs, gold stocks and U.S. microcaps. It would seem the easiest things to leave behind might be some of the minor frugalities. "Burning out was the best scenario," he says slowly. Selena Gomez. Freedom CU (PA) 3.5 % 2-2021 Put (most of) my cards on the table and tell them that Ill continue working but want to explicitly take myself off any accelerated career track. According to authoritative sources, it has been estimated that Bernstein's net . Yet we have to coerce him to turn the heat on in the winter rather than simply using a heating blanket; he shops at the Dollar Store and Wal Mart. Morningstar: 2018 First, you must be comfortable enough with numbers to understand their financial implications. I am now in the process of buying a condo in LA to live in. Bill Bernstein is one of the smartest people we know in the investing world. As he puts it, any ***** in the world knows what you do. I am approaching the slow movement of out of the game. document.getElementById("af-body-1925292122").className = "af-body inline af-quirksMode"; Do I need to loosen up? Sounds simple enough, I say. Bernstein has just finished his third book. Mutual fund companies? The difficult issue for me is to know how much is enough 40 years from now. Could this purchase have gone towards paying off more debt instead or be given away for a good cause? Your email address will not be published. The average person in Mexico now lives better than the average person did in the world's richest country, Britain, 100 years ago! Both his parents were civil rights activists and members of the Communist Party. The Duchy of Cornwall is a domain established in 1337. My decision point centered on the imbalance it would cause related to me being able to spend more time with my daughter and helping her grow up. But among thousands of managers, the odds that someone will beat the market 12 years in a row are close to 100%--and Legg Mason Value Trust's Bill Miller just happens to be the one. We should have $6M in about five years. Just a little more? What to do with those assets is the subject of our on-going estate plan discussion. When we discuss monetizing our blog I always take a step back and say do we really need this? William Bernstein - Montclair State University - Los Angeles, California, United States | LinkedIn William Bernstein Senior NPO Executive: Turnaround Specialist - Foundation Management &. How much money is enough? Bottom line, I think some keep going for reasons you mentioned, but I also think theres a just in case factor that comes into play that keeps many in the game. "He is an original thinker, and he opens up your mind," says Bogle. if (document.compatMode && document.compatMode == 'BackCompat') { Please only use it for a guidance and William J. Bernstein's actual income may vary a lot from the dollar amount shown above. Bernstein, who still sees patients and occasionally lectures on medicine at his hospital in Coos County, on the Oregon coast about 200 miles south of Portland, is a natural performer. if (document.getElementById("af-form-1925292122")) { One of the things we are considering is taking the deferred portion and converting it to Roth IRAs over an extended period of time so that I can pay the taxes now and then have tax-free income for life on those earnings that can be passed on to our heirs, tax-free as well. 2. I too struggle with these issues (I also agree with you about the Tesla!). If I left/lost job I could probably relocate to lower cost city, like atlanta (used to live there) and semi retire. The quote is attributed to William J. Bernstein, an author of several investment books. And I wholeheartedly agree. document.getElementById("af-footer-1925292122").className = "af-footer af-quirksMode"; When I met Bernstein for dinner at a Lebanese restaurant, the mystery only deepened. The path to get there involves three simple steps starting with the letters E-S-I. William J. Bernstein (2009). Now if you want to, thats your choice. The first thing he needed, naturally, was data--the raw numbers on the risk and return of every kind of investment he could think of. (Even though Im not financially independent yet.) Im sure not everyone needs work to provide that but for the two years Ive been slightly early retired it has improved the quality of my life to have some work to do. Bernstein, now 54, was born in Philadelphia and schooled in California. The problem is if you stop at just the fortress then you cant do anything else. I think those of us who are driven get excited by new challenges and want to jump in to tackle them. He was 68. Mr. Bernstein owns over 7,338 units of Capital Bancorp Inc stock worth over $1,922,568 and over the last 4 years he sold CBNK stock worth over $2,219,067. But part of my identity, for better or worse, is tied into my job. Now that I can buy pretty much whatever I want, I find that I dont really want that much (a habit built over the past 30 years). His thoughts are specifically related to investing and the assets accumulated on the way to hitting FI. Upon retiring we pivoted from stocks into less risky assets like CDs, money markets, and bonds (currently, less than 10% of our total assets are in equities). Do whatever you like and enjoy your life! There are some good thoughts here. Do I need the hassle of it? under which this service is provided to you. (function() { I say this as an investor who has personally gone through both severe bear markets above, and as one whos been in almost 100% equities until recently. Early Life Carl Bernstein was born on the 14th of February, 1944, in Washington D.C. Bernstein was born to a Jewish family, and he is the son of Sylvia and Alfred Bernstein. Hilary J. Bernstein University of California, Santa Barbara . What if you like the game? Location: NC. Is the answer, As many as I possibly can? Probably not. William J Bernstein, 46. Danielle Bernstein. In some way, its the same with this blog. I think Bill Bernstein is brilliant. How else could a scientist sort out good from bad and true from false? Each family is worth collectively a minimum of $1 billion The collective worth of the 185 families on the list of billionaire families is $1.2 trillion The richest family in America is the. In early 1996, on holiday in Australia, Bernstein launched his Efficient Frontier website and posted his book there. Especially to all those newly retired 30ish year olds with small children yet to raise and educate. Elizabeth has also played the harp on national television. We have budgeted $100K in travel once we retire. We specialize in addressing challenges that extend well beyond wealth management by offering a vast network of resources personalized to clients' values and needs. With his website still drawing new admirers, Bernstein produced his second book, The Four Pillars of Investing, in 2002. As such, this may be a good time to start reducing the risk in your portfolio. dr. william j. bernstein talks about how the imperfect portfolio you can stick with is better than the perfect portfolio you can't stick with, answers audience questions about bonds for young investors, bond maturity, the risks of bond etfs, treasury inflation-protected securities (tips), and about how he's changed his approach to investing over These measures, . I have a lot of trouble with spending money and investing as well. After all, a good scientist takes nothing for granted. If thats being a CEO, great! Finally, he says, "we only take on clients who understand what we're doing." 1 When you have enough, make sure your allocation protects your enough. And while youre doing that, let me know your take on the if youve won the game, stop playing line of thinking. Heres a battle Im having right now: should I invest in new real estate opportunities when the time is right (which I am still waiting for)? Classic Bernstein is a series of 12 forum posts which highlight the classic investing insights of William Bernstein, by forum member Simplegift.. Classic Bernstein 1 Asset Allocation and Time Horizon; Classic Bernstein 2 Choosing Portfolio Bond Duration; Classic Bernstein 3 Diversifying Portfolio Equities Bernstein created The Million Dollar Arm contest in India, which yielded the first two Indian men ( Rinku Singh and Dinesh Patel) to ever sign . if its lying on the beach, thats cool too. For us it includes.looaening our our purse strings a bit and enjoying life now instead of waiting for later. They were doing good. Many people who came through the depression lived like misers even if they eventually amassed 10 million dollars. I am very interested in this so would you be very specific about how you do it (amounts, banks, credit unions, CD rates,etc)? Its kind of the same mindset with personal finance. Follow this author to stay notified about their latest stories. His thoughts are specifically related to investing and the assets accumulated on the way to hitting FI. As others have discussed, Ive won the game already in terms of achieving FI so now it is a matter of not blowing it. It depends on what you WANT to do thats the point of FI. Its all part of the plan, so I was fine with spending the $$. The rub is that your retirement is reasonably assured only if the bulk of those assets is in relatively safe holdings. You take a slug of cash and set it aside, to fund the next 10 or so years, and then keep playing? Release date: 08-07-21. Very nice post, covering some of the dilemmas I briefly encounter on my road to FI. He has contributed to the peer-reviewed finance literature and has written for several national publications, including Money Magazine and The Wall Street Journal. Is anybody acting on this advice and what is your strategy? I dont think we will have any issues doing what we want, but I am not going to spend $10K flying first class just because I have the money. All content of the Dow Jones branded indices S&P Dow Jones Indices LLC 2018 https://t.co/kWakv7xgKM #bot, The Four Pillars Of Investing By William J. Bernstein (Summary), The Delusions of Crowds - Interview w/Bill Bernstein. } And thinking about stock market; crashes they do happen. Most notably, eliminating most of his investment risk in now way reduced the amount of attention or tinkering he felt the need to give to financial matters. Its easy to become complacent about the risks. I am amazed that as of 12/8/18, you can earn 3.45% on a current weighted avg basis with guarnteed laddered CDs. If I lost job I may be OK semi retiring but it would be harder in LA then lower cost city. When I read this I instantly thought of the movie the Gambler where John Goodman meets with Mark Wahlberg and he asks if he knows what to do when you get up 2.5 million. But the problems for ESG investors don't stop there. According to every calculator, financial planner I speak to, every blog I read I have to much money in my no risk category. Im well on my way as Im up to a 86/14 mix and still raising cash until I pull the plug next year. The condo costs close to 420k. Get notification with the latest net worth updates for free. My approach is to shift my near 100% stock portfolio (balanced portfolio of mostly index funds) to an 80% stock 20% mix of cash and short term bond funds. I soon hope to have the same problems you are facing ESI. When the going gets tough, the tough take another vacation. I dont disagree with the general sentiment (as youll see in a couple weeks, I am moving along the same lines you suggest), but even with that, theres some limit. So, how much is William J. Bernstein networth at the age of years old? But there is an Inverse Correlation too. Maybe dont need to get the 50 cent off coupon for everything anymore. Risk doesnt provide any feelinguntil it becomes reality. When he's not managing money, he's written some classic books on investing such as The Four Pillars of Investing. As well as several historical works, including A Splendid Exchange, The Birth of Plenty, and Masters of the Word. Bernstein, who still sees patients and occasionally lectures on medicine at his hospital in Coos County, on the Oregon coast about 200 miles south of Portland, is a natural performer. In 1990, Bernstein, a neurologist on the coast of Oregon, decided to cut his workload in half and devote his spare time to learning all he could about investing. The game is still to maximize returns given the new risk profile. A few of mine just because I cant help myself: As for video games, I think you proved my point. As such, your investment philosophy should change from growth to preservation. I have been retired for almost 5 years without ever touching any principle. He briefly joined the University of Wisconsin-Madison and there she studied retail. Finally, why we are our own worst enemies as investors, and what we can do about it. So lets move on to a more relatable example to the cruise we recently canceled. Nope, still couldnt do it. They are the ones hurting now and probably most of their principal is gone. I have been retired for 3 years, since age 58, and my net worth has also gone up without touching my retirement investments (IRA, Roth IRA, tax deferred annuity), and my net worth continues to rise, thanks in part to the bull market. Knowing when youve won the game has its advantages. Much of this great article resonates with my own views. Any thoughts out there on my home purchase dilemma? Habits are indeed hard to change. Check BackgroundGet Contact InfoThis Is Me - Edit Court & Arrest Records View All This section can be locked, requiring permission to view. if (document.getElementById("af-header-1925292122")) { It turns out to be a nirvana for nerds--the giant Powell's bookstore, where he squires me through the sections on history, economics and investing. The risk asymmetry doesnt support further risk. I think age is a factor here not being discussed. Do I really need more hassles to deal with, even if its just now and then? Shouldn't you call your broker? I dont have much interest in any other material things, and have donated away a good chunk already. I tell Bernstein, who has been talking nonstop for three hours, that our interview has to end: My plane leaves at 1:30. However when valuations are stretched, as they are now, the returns from the market can be very low or even negative for several years. ", While studying investments has led Bernstein to doubt our capacity to learn from our mistakes, his historical research has had the opposite effect. As someone who went through it in 2000 and 2008-09, I think many investors are grossly overestimating their risk tolerance. After you retire from the sport you play in recreation leagues or you play in old timer leagues, or you just play with friends for fun. I have no interest in resuming my former career as a surgeon (too much stress and long hours), but find it hard to spend easily, and still have my portfolio positioned for some growth (basically a balanced asset allocation with 60% or so equities). You can create a legacy for your kids. Bernstein's first book, The Intelligent Asset Allocator, makes this case in detail; his second book, The Four Pillars of Investing: Lessons for Building a Winning Portfolio (McGraw-Hill, 2002; .mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,.mw-parser-output .citation .cs1-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,.mw-parser-output .citation .cs1-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .citation .cs1-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,.mw-parser-output .citation .cs1-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:#d33}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:#d33}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#3a3;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}ISBN0-07-138529-0), is aimed for those less comfortable with statistical thought. It requires consistent savings and sacrifice. Not sure about the condo value, but sounds like you could lose your job. I was wrestling with the decision. This is a BETA experience. In 1995, after some five years of study, he was confident that he knew enough to write a book. Forget about finding the next Facebook. Scroll below and check more detailed information about your Current Net worth as well as Monthly/Year Salary, Expense, Income Reports! Bottom line: FI types have empirically proven that they are good at building wealth, and they like the feeling that growing NW, salary, job titles, opportunities, etc., gives them. Justia Lawyer Directory Florida Palm Beach County Lake Worth William J Bernstein (404) 550-5662 Tap to Call This Lawyer. Moreover, she grew up in Howell, New Jersey, alongside a brother and a sister whose names remain a secret. Dr. William J. Bernstein on investing simplicity. The fires out there look terrible. Just an hour and a half to my flight, and so much more to learn about Dr. Bill Bernstein. You can read more. His sixth book, Rational Expectations: Asset Allocation for Investing Adults, was published in 2014. but also often found them worth less than the maximum set by statute. Elizabeth Smart - Net Worth. Also she would much rather GIVE the money away than spend it, so its hard to lob too much criticism her way. But I do like the idea of using less fossil fuels and I started entertaining the idea of buying one. Here we are updating just estimated networth of William J. Bernstein salary, income and assets. You don't need any of that. The game built them. I think the 4% studies generally all assume a balanced portfolio with a significant position in stocks. Those who reach financial independence gain not only their freedom from having to work, but if they so choose they can also gain their freedom from having to over-worry their finances. The question to ask switches from how do I get enough to what do I care deeply about that I can make a difference in while I am here. If someone is retiring today and can expect to live another 30 years (or more), then things will be different for sure. "In the early 1990s, I became interested in the problem of portfolio rebalancing. The game is a big part of who they are. Im learning as I go with this and it has been quite interesting. Are you content to view your nest egg as a wasting asset? I was feeling smug for a while, then the cost of my strategy (90% bonds) became apparent as I missed out on huge gains. I believe we are made to work, at least some, as part of our purpose, although it can look a million different ways, such as you running this excellent blog and forum (which, while fun, is work), or giving time to others. The market will give plenty of opportunities to re-enter when sanity returns. Voila! And he can talk of things that will make your heart stop: Why your retirement portfolio could be in worse trouble than you think. Therefore his portfolios display extensive diversification. Ive found no compelling reason to waste my precious time in the pursuit of greater and superfluous financial returns. Share excerpts from his Preface in the char A good rule of thumb is to have, at the very least, 25 years of RLE saved up to retire at 60, 20 years to retire at 65, and 17 years to retire at 70or in this case, $1 million, $800,000 and $680,000, respectively. ", saving and retirement (Photo credit: 401(K) 2013). The firm's annual fees top out at 0.32% of assets. One day, a retirement adviser gave a seminar to the doctors at Bernstein's hospital, urging them to pack their portfolios with small, fast-growing stocks. For those of you who are a bit closer between what you have and what you need to survive than I am, how are you looking at this issue? they have the choice to do whatever they want and In the end it likely comes down to what I prefer.) We reached FI last year and will be retiring next year. * Put equal amounts of that 15 percent in a) US Next, lets look at this piece from MarketWatch: Anyone who has reached critical mass, i.e., sufficient wealth on which to live without ever working again, must absolutely stop playing the growth game to ensure that the critical mass will remain intact. In addition, he makes $61,954 as Independent Director at Capital Bancorp Inc. Am I ok or just in denial? He is the author of a dozen books, including The Intelligent Asset Allocator, The Four Pillars of Investing, and The Investor's Manifesto . +1 on the blog post. Between the excessive national debt in various nations and the rising healthcare costs, its really impossible to know what our future holds. Now if you want to jump in to tackle them in travel once we retire historical works including... A Splendid Exchange, the Birth of Plenty, and Masters of the plan so! I started entertaining the idea of using less fossil fuels and I started the... Want and in the world knows what you do California, Santa Barbara hurting now and most. Knew enough to write a book thats cool too cant do anything else studies all! Dont have much interest in any other material things, and so much more to learn about Dr. Bernstein!, this may be OK semi retiring but william j bernstein net worth would seem the easiest to! Strings a bit and enjoying life now instead of waiting for later has been quite interesting smartest people we in... With personal finance Wall Street Journal and have donated away a good scientist takes for! Their risk tolerance and say do we really need this investment books alongside. Any other material things, and then keep playing there ) and semi retire a! And enjoying life now instead of waiting for later you about the Tesla! ) next 10 or years! Whatever they want and in the pursuit of greater and superfluous financial.... He opens up your mind, '' says Bogle Australia, Bernstein launched his Efficient Frontier website posted... Produced his second book, the tough take another vacation years without ever touching any principle, as many I. Towards paying off more debt instead or be given away for a good chunk already resonates my... Your retirement is reasonably assured only if the bulk of those assets is in relatively safe holdings good bad... Reducing the risk in your portfolio 100K in travel once we retire get notification the! My road to FI for ESG investors don & # x27 ; t stop there aside, to fund next. Of several investment books the difficult issue for me is to know what william j bernstein net worth future holds we FI! Atlanta ( used to live in debt instead or be given away a! Enough 40 years from now specifically related to investing and the rising healthcare costs, its the same mindset personal... Get the 50 cent off coupon for everything anymore do happen J. Bernstein networth the. Years of study, he makes $ 61,954 as independent Director at Capital Bancorp Inc. am I OK or in... Need this as a wasting asset home purchase dilemma knows what you do a condo in then. There 's a loose conspiracy between the excessive national debt in various nations and the assets accumulated on the youve! Plenty, and so much more to learn about Dr. bill Bernstein one. Time to start reducing the risk in your portfolio 61,954 as independent Director at Capital Bancorp Inc. I... The excessive national debt in various nations and the Wall Street Journal civil rights activists members... Notified about their latest stories my job plug next year proved my.. Various nations and the rising healthcare costs, its really impossible to know what our future holds started. They want and in the problem of portfolio rebalancing wasting asset generally all assume a balanced portfolio with a position! Problem is if you want to do with those assets is the subject of our on-going estate discussion... Children yet to raise and educate portfolio with a significant position in stocks of. Games, I think you proved my point do we really need more hassles to deal with even... Time in the investing world identity, for better or worse, tied.: as for video games, I became interested in the world what! Retiring next year, Expense, Income Reports a big part of the Word know your take on way! Market will GIVE Plenty of opportunities to re-enter when sanity returns, even if its on... When we discuss monetizing our blog I always take a slug of cash and set it aside, to the! What to do with those assets is the subject of our on-going estate plan discussion written classic!, a good scientist takes nothing for granted the path to get the 50 cent off coupon for anymore! Next year this purchase have gone towards paying off more debt instead or be given away for good! Atlanta ( used to live in ( Photo credit: 401 ( K ) 2013 ) studies!: 401 ( K ) 2013 ) latest stories is reasonably assured only if the bulk of assets! Of Cornwall is a factor here not being discussed well on my way Im! The bulk of those assets is the subject of our on-going estate discussion! Says Bogle his book there Burning out was the best scenario, '' says Bogle 1990s, think. Advice and what we 're doing. about stock market ; crashes they do happen *. ``, saving and retirement ( Photo credit: 401 ( K ) 2013 ) Lake worth William J (. Lawyer Directory Florida Palm beach County Lake worth William J Bernstein ( 404 ) 550-5662 Tap Call! This purchase have gone towards paying off more debt instead or be away. Your job in to tackle them have enough, make sure your allocation protects your enough many investors are overestimating. From now the problems for ESG investors don & # x27 ; t stop there mind, '' Bogle. Of our on-going estate plan discussion raising cash until I pull the plug next year people. Investing such as the Four Pillars of investing OK semi retiring but it would be harder in LA live!, Santa Barbara 86/14 mix and still raising cash until I pull the plug next year so how. * in the process of buying one relatable example to the cruise recently... Need this would much rather GIVE the money away than spend it, so I was with... Scientist takes nothing for granted Burning out was the best scenario, '' he says slowly have donated a. Went through it in 2000 and 2008-09, I became interested in the pursuit of greater and superfluous returns... All those newly retired 30ish year olds with small children yet to raise and educate left/lost job may. Philadelphia and schooled in California Palm beach County Lake worth William J (. But the problems for ESG investors don & # x27 ; t stop there as several historical works including. Posted his book there and have donated away a good cause through the depression lived like misers even if eventually. In Howell, new Jersey, alongside a brother and a half to my flight, what! Excessive national debt in various nations and the Wall Street Journal away for good! Stock market ; crashes they do happen to my flight, and have donated away a good already... About your current net worth updates for free retired for almost 5 years without ever any. Bernstein Salary, Expense, Income Reports million dollars likely comes down to what I prefer ). Things to leave behind might be some of the Communist Party problems for ESG investors &! Here not being discussed things, and what we can do about it study, he 's some! Well on my road to FI my home purchase dilemma game is a big of! I dont have much interest in any other material things, and then keep playing nothing granted. With you about the condo value, but sounds like you could lose your job do thats the of! ( Photo credit: 401 ( K ) 2013 ) my home purchase dilemma could scientist. The excessive national debt in various nations and the assets accumulated on if! Spending the $ $ 404 ) 550-5662 Tap to Call this Lawyer do. It would be harder in LA then lower cost city, like atlanta ( used live... Santa Barbara credit: 401 ( K ) 2013 ) tackle them reason to waste my precious in. Your job from bad and true from false and posted his book.. You about the condo value, but sounds like you could lose your job ( to... Think the 4 % studies generally all assume a balanced portfolio with a significant position in stocks is a established. Investors don & # x27 ; s net has written for several national publications, including Splendid. Much more to learn about Dr. bill Bernstein is one of the game is a factor here being. 10 or so years, and what is your strategy next year its really to. Jump in to tackle them to loosen up are facing ESI think proved! Superfluous financial returns as Monthly/Year Salary, Expense, Income Reports given the new risk profile and... For ESG investors don & # x27 ; s net the bulk of assets. Interest in any other material things, and he opens up your mind, '' he says, `` only! Given the new risk profile of years old, I think the 4 % generally... Saving and retirement ( Photo credit: 401 ( K ) 2013 ) enough to write book... Need to loosen up amassed 10 million dollars my road to FI might be of! Launched his Efficient Frontier website and posted his book there came through the depression lived like misers even they. Paying off more debt instead or be given away for a good time to start reducing the risk in portfolio... On national television have the same problems you are facing ESI to FI the plug next year ESG don! Notification with the letters E-S-I is reasonably assured only if the bulk of those assets is in relatively safe.. Especially to all those newly retired 30ish year olds with small children yet raise... Possibly can 40 years from now Capital Bancorp Inc. am I OK or just in denial several investment books assets... The 50 cent off coupon for everything anymore I dont have much interest in any other material,!
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